VINCE GIARRUSSO OF UNDERGROUND LOVERS
How do you measure success? Is it determined by record sales, global recognition, or a legion of fans? In some cases perhaps. They are all relevant units of evaluation and for some, it is the benchmark to which greatness is compared. On the other hand, success can be quantified by longevity, seminal releases, and watershed moments. These aspects in particular do well to encapsulate the career of Melbourne’s Underground Lovers, their lasting impression, musical sphere of influence, and the affection the general public has toward them.
This year marks the thirtieth anniversary since the release of their second and most iconic album, Dream It Down. A record that embodied the style and sentiment of the time as indie was on the rise and alt ruled supreme. Famously turning their backs on a huge record deal in favour of a grassroots approach and pursuing independent ideals, it was a move that brought them riches in the only stakes that count, sincerity and quality. Ahead of a national tour in support of their iconic album’s anniversary, vocalist and founding member Vince Giarrusso joins us to discuss the record, its micro and macro appeal, and how the life and times of six Victorians contributed to laying down such a significant stone on the path of eternal musical greatness.
Firstly, congratulations on the milestone of Dream It Down. A truly iconic album and one that makes every fan of Underground Lover's heart swell. Given its journey in time, how do you personally feel towards the album in 2024?
We have fallen in love with ‘Dream it Down’ again! It’s a beautiful album. It was an album that was born under difficult personal and professional circumstances, but it holds together. It still sounds fresh. Glenn (Bennie) and I were really sure of our vision for the album and we enlisted a great set of collaborators to see the album come to fruition.
Cementing both a sound and a scene, in reflection have you stepped back to see how significant the record has been, not just to Australian artists but also on a global level considering its sphere of influence?
We were never really aware of its influence at the time. We always had this paranoid feeling that people hated us especially in the industry. We just made the best record we could under trying circumstances. But I catch glimpses of its significance every now and then. And it’s an emotional and human thing. The other day a prominent Melbourne artist (and his famous actor partner) told me that “Dream it Down” was the soundtrack of their lives when they lived in New York City in the mid 90’s. Their group of friends from all over the world listened to the album on repeat. A TV presenter told me that “Losin it” was the birthing song for her first child. Yikes! Another person wants the song “Dream it Down” played at their funeral. County Court judges and oncologists (I’ve met a few- long story) tell me how much they adore the record. We remember both Paul Kelly and Grant McLennan expressing their love of the album at the time and that was such a thrill. The reaction now from fans on social media and their excitement about the vinyl release has made us realise what a special album this was for a lot of people back in 1994.
Can you describe the surroundings of Dream It Down; the scene at the time, what went into the album (personally and professionally), touring on the back of it, and your stand-out moments?
The music scene, especially the live scene on the east coast was very buzzy. People were seeing bands in droves. It felt very human. Not so corporate. We were very busy touring back then and got to play several national tours throughout 94 and 95. We played with lots of great local bands like Drop City, The Clouds, and Autohaze and did the big festivals like Big Day Out, Livid and Homebake. It was a busy time with live shows, and we had a lot of fun. Finding Tim Whitten to mix us live certainly helped as we could trust him to always pull a deep resonating sound. We still work with Tim to this day. David Leslie was a big part of the shows too in the mid 90’s with his incredible visuals. Dream it Down was a tough album to make. At the time we were going through line-up changes, we were being sued by our then manager, we got conflicted legal advice and as a result lost advances and other money and on top of that we had started young families. It was a scary and tough time financially. Touring the record was tough as we had to find a way to translate that studio sound to a live situation and still sound authentic and in the moment. We didn’t want to play to backing tracks. But stand out moments were always the shows. It is always that connection with the audience and the singalongs on songs like “Dream it Down”, “Beautiful World” and “Las Vegas”.
Of the eleven tracks on Dream It Down, can you share some of your particular fav’s and what makes them so special to you?
“Superstar”/”Supernova” – I love these two songs together. They are unique, idiosyncratic and unlike anything. They are two vignettes of loss and nostalgia, masculine and feminine that are emotional and hypnotic. There is a surreal and strange feeling in the song. That bassline from Maurice is so sweet and then those strings kick in. It gives me goosebumps thinking about it. I’m really proud of the melodies on "Dream it Down”. I’m a melodically driven kinda person. “Losin’ It” is also a favourite. It’s so simple and deceptively hard to play live. The production and string arrangements from David Chesworth and Robert Goodge are beautiful and brought out the best in the song. The song was a big deal for the record company. They financed two videos for it. The beautiful yellow t-shirt version directed by Marcelle Luman and the edgy USA version directed by Paul Goldman and shot by Mandy Walker (who was recently nominated for an Academy Award for her cinematography on the film Elvis).
Lyrically and socially, some of the topics you addressed on Dream It Down such as Las Vegas, that were tackling issues at the time have either remained the same or have become more socially accepted. How do you see the subject matter you were addressing at the time now compared to when you were first putting pen to paper?
We love that identity and diversity is becoming more acceptable. We reckon we copped flak for it in the day, especially from the industry which was a lot more gorilla back then. We have always had mixed cultures, mixed genders in the band. It feels natural to us. Human. We just never made a big song and dance about it ... having said that “Las Vegas” is a big song and dance number. Around the time of “Las Vegas” being released we were asked to perform the song on Video Hits on Network Ten. A progressive soul at the record company suggested we get a drag artist on stage and flew Carlotta, a famous Sydney drag artist down to Melbourne and she was part of our performance. I don’t know how we got away with it. Needless to say, the vision was never broadcast. Network Ten banned it. It was too much for the Video Hits audience. I would love to see that footage. There were lots of feathers and they were fluffy and pink.
You have described making music in the Underground Lovers as like a second language, a language you are completely fluent in. How has that dialogue evolved from Leaves Me Blind to Dream It Down and throughout your many subsequent releases?
Glenn and I have a shorthand for making music together. It is instinctive and rhythmic and natural. We talk about it, hum a tune, play a few chords and then Bang! A song is there. Then we talk about the song in objective terms. We always ask “what is the best for the song?”. What is its place in the bunch of songs we are writing? We aim for emotional connection and dance feels and most importantly simplicity which is really hard. It hasn’t really changed since we first started writing tunes together. Glenn and I got the idea for the song “Beautiful World” backstage at the Adelaide Entertainment Centre when we supported The Cure in 1992. I was humming the tune and a few garbled words with Glenn finding the chords on his guitar while we waited to load our equipment out. In the background, members of The Cure got into their individual limousines. Later that night we played pool with them at a dive bar in Adelaide. I beat Robert Smith. True story. We came up with “Losin it” in the same way, humming and strumming, umming and ahhing , waiting for our laundry to dry at the Holiday Inn in LA. I always had that opening lyric and melody clanging around in my head “Hey you , stare at the sun…”
Having performed with countless musicians over the years and sharing the stage with artists such as My Bloody Valentine, The Cure, and The Breeders. Was it moments like these that gave you an outer body moment and a surreal experience that reinforced how Underground Lovers were being perceived and recognised?
Yes, it is an absolute honour and privilege to have shared the stage with all artists here and overseas. Personally, we are egalitarian in regard to music and musicians.
With a relatively unchanged line-up, would you say that the consistent presence of yourself, Richard, Maurice, Glenn, Emma, and Philippa has been the solid foundation that facilitated the proliferation of your work and cemented the enduring (musical) relationship Underground Lovers has held across the decades and that the winning dynamic has, along with the actual music itself, weathered the undulations of styles, times and tastes over the years?
We are very much a mixed bag of A type individuals. All successful in our chosen professions and interests. So, when we get together it is always intense. Glenn and I have known each other since we were 12 and have a long personal and professional history. I guess that is a bit of an advantage. We use humour as a way of getting through the rehearsal process. Sometimes in rehearsal the song locks in and it’s a dream. But we always leave room for improvisation and the unknown in performance mode.
Some of the highest praise an artist can receive is that from fellow musicians and during your years, what encounters have you had with existing and emerging acts that cite Underground Lovers as an outfit that they were inspired by and drew creative directions from?
I am not sure about praise and influence as I am a shy type. Culturally I have been taught that praise masks a negative (check “mal occhio” and Calabrese social mores) So if I receive praise I clam up and then try hard to deflect and then come across as a doofus. Then I panic and go into goofball mode which puts people off hence the therapy (Check it out on most podcast streaming services). But Glenn reminds me that Robert Smith chose us for that tour, as have New Order, Primal Scream, Died Pretty (RIP Ron), and Happy Mondays (but they cancelled). Steve Kilbey is a massive fan and has turned lots of people on to Underground Lovers both here and overseas. Steve Kilby wanted to produce us in the 90’s but it didn’t eventuate. Grant McLennan was the same. He was full of praise for Dream it Down, and we got to tour with him in 98 and he joined us on stage for a few songs. Glenn has a recording of Las Vegas from the Prince of Wales in St Kilda where Grant plays acoustic guitar and sings a counterpoint to me in the outro…almost like Robert’s counterpoint to Grant in Cattle and Cane. Anyway, all that aside, these guys were so generous with their time and praise and I think we all got some confidence from that and a belief to keep going.
Can you share with us one of your favorite performances from the time of Dream It Down and what made it such a highlight show?
Well, the launch in Melbourne was joyous. As ‘Las Vegas’ was a single and a lot of the Polydor publicity was based around that song, the launch of the album in Sydney was at Les Girls in Kings Cross. The venue was amazing, a bit different to the Annandale, and there was a drag show on before us. We also did a Big Day Out in Sydney that year and played in the Hordern Pavilion with Showgirls on stage with us. We loved doing Homebake around that time at Sydney Uni and remember playing between The Dirty Three and Dave Graney and the Coral Snakes. We were on one of the side stages (not with the harder edged rock bands on the big stage) and there was a real community vibe backstage between the more arty and bashful bands on our stage. We also played Sydney a few times that year at the Annandale, and it was so intense. We also played Perth, Brisbane and Adelaide in the year Dream It Down came out with Derek drumming. Those shows were always highlights. The audiences were always with us ... every step of the way. We are blessed with the best audiences.
Performing tracks off the album as you are soon about to on your national tour, do you tend to play them faithfully to the record or alter them in ways that either match the atmosphere of the location or in ways that perhaps you wish you may have compared to the original recordings?
We are working through the set list now to see what will work. There is no way we can do all the songs from ‘Dream it Down’ as some were written specifically as studio tracks. There are others we’ve played over the years, and they will get a run, but this time with added live strings which is exciting. We try and make the set work as best we can and leave a margin for improvisation and spontaneity. Some of the songs really lend themselves to this, others not so much. We tend to structure the shows with a build in intensity and as much dancing as possible.
Tying the thread from GBVG days to Underground Lovers, everyone’s various side projects, and through to the present, what have been some of the unwavering constants that have persisted throughout your career, and what aspects were idiosyncratic, snapshots frozen in time?
We have always been committed to our music. Our way of putting songs together and then grouping them into sets or sequences that make up long play albums. We love that process. We have always been about the songs and are privileged to have a connection with an audience that is authentic and honest. We were never really part of a scene as such. We refused to be a member of a club that accepted us as members. We know we are not to everyone’s taste. That’s Ok. We live in a democracy, not an autocracy. The people that got it ... get it.
