FLETCHER DRAGGE OF PENNYWISE

FOR SOME ARTISTS THEIR NAME IS INSTANTLY RECOGNISABLE AND THE MERE MENTION OF THEM IS SYNONYMOUS WITH A SCENE. FOR FANS OF PUNK ROCK, IF YOU HAVEN’T HEARD OF PENNYWISE THEN YOU HAVE BEEN LIVING UNDER A PROVERBIAL. PIONEERING THE SCENE SINCE THE EIGHTIES, THE FOUR PIECE HAVE REMAINED AT THE TOP OF THEIR GAME EVER SINCE. STEADILY RELEASING MATERIAL FOR DECADES AND TOURING RELENTLESSLY, SOUTH BAY NATIVE AND FOUNDING MEMBER FLETCHER DRAGGE JOINS MUSICOLOGY TO SHARE HIS MEMORIES FROM THE EARLIEST OF DAYS AND TO LET US KNOW WHO HE IS EXCITED ABOUT SEEING AT THE UPCOMING GOOD THINGS FESTIVAL.

Hi Fletcher, and thank you for taking the time out to speak with us at Musicology. Growing up in Hermosa Beach area, can you describe the scene in California at the time and how it shaped your sound?

Growing up in Hermosa Beach in the 1980s, well actually it was the 70s and the 60s because I'm old as fuck. We actually call it the South Bay down here. And there are three cities, Manhattan, Hermosa, Redondo, and they're all beach cities. And it makes up what everyone refers to as the South Bay. I think I spent my first 16 years in Manhattan Beach, which is right next door, literally, to Hermosa Beach. I moved to Hermosa when I was 16, but spent most of my youth actually hanging out in Hermosa, because I lived right on the border. And then I spent some time in Redondo Beach and then back to Hermosa Beach. So I would say it's not just growing up in Hermosa Beach, it's growing up in the South Bay, that’s kind of the terminology we use here. And that was heavily influenced by surfing and skateboarding.

When I was really young, the first thing I learned how to do was ride a skateboard. Second thing I learned to do was get in the water, go boogie boarding and then surfing. And that eventually led into punk rock in a roundabout way, because punk rock was just something that was happening in our city. We had the Descendants, we had Black Flag, we had the Germs, we had Redd Kross, a band called The Last, and of course the Circle Jerks too out of Hermosa Beach. There were a bunch of bands that were playing at that time. And as I started finding out about punk rock, I was like: okay, I like this music. What do I have around here? And it's like: oh my god, Black Flag’s practicing three blocks from my house. Oh, the Descendants are playing at a high school dance. It was crazy. At that time, punk rock had not exploded, it wasn't big, it was something really small.

I would say that I knew like 25 punk rockers in the city, and that was it. I mean, there were more than that, but that was our little crew. So, we were able to get in the car, go to Hollywood, go to gigs. We were able to go down the street to a bar or a warehouse and see Black Flag play. They used to carry their equipment out of the van into backyard parties. And you're talking about some of the most legendary punk rock bands of all time. It was kind of unfair, I guess, some of the best bands of all time to come out of the punk rock world were all in our little city and were all totally accessible. I mean, I went to high school with the Descendants. I'd be in the bathroom when I was a freshman, and Bill Stevenson would be screaming at me asking if I was going to go to the show tonight. And I was scared to death of the guy. He was a big boisterous maniac, obviously a super sweet guy at the end of the day. But yeah, we were right in the middle of it, and that was my upbringing. And immediately I was like: well, I want to do this. This looks really fun. So I started a band with a couple of friends, and we started playing around the end of 80 or 81, it was a band called Con 800. We started playing local parties and it was just really, really cool and we were very, very privileged to be part of it and learn the ropes from literally the legends.

We basically got our homeschooling from the greatest legends of punk rock in the history of punk rock. And it was absolutely crazy, insane. The police didn't like us. The football players didn't like us. Your next door neighbor didn't like us, but that was all part of the charm of it all. It was complete chaos and rebellion, and that's kind of faded in punk rock, but it was pretty cool to be part of that.

It is very much a different music industry today than when you first started (although it could be argued that very little has changed) and to gain access to labels, radio, tours, was seemingly a lot harder than it is today. What were your steepest learning curves breaking into the music world and walking the tightrope between satisfying the demands of the business world and that of pure punk and not adhering to any rules outside of just playing for the hell of it?

Good question. We didn't have a choice but to do things on our own. The DIY approach is something a lot of the bands in those days did. Black Flag formed SST records, and they had the Descendants and Black Flag and others, and it was all a lot of independent stuff. I mean, there were some major labels picking up on punk rock back then. A lot of the gigs that were getting thrown were just in warehouse rentals or backyard parties or whatever. So you just were forced to do it yourself. But that is a huge upper hand because when it came time to start negotiating record deals and doing the business side of it, I already knew how much it costed to make a single and how to go about making the artwork and printing it, and how much a T-shirt costs, to buy a blank T-shirt, and how much a screen costs and all the little idiosyncrasies that a lot of bands don't understand. But we did.

So, if you're a band in a garage and you come up and you do this and that and the other, and you get a showcase and you get signed to a label, you're like: okay, cool, it sounds good. But we're like: ah, that doesn't sound good. Actually, some of the stuff that got negotiated on our first record deal at Epitaph, mechanical royalties was one of 'em where he had that as a recoupable expense where he wouldn't pay us the mechanicals. And I was like: “no, that's not right. You need to pay us those mechanical royalties no matter what, no matter how much money we owe you”. It's like an artist royalty, it's a different type of thing. And he was like: “oh, you caught that?”. And I was like: “yeah”. And he changed it. I knew nothing really, but I did enough research to know: no, we should get that paid no matter how much money we owe you, if we do $10,000 in mechanical royalties this year, you need to pay us. And he did. It’s just things like that, being forced to do it yourself helped us a lot in our career as far as negotiating labels and all this kind of stuff.

It's super difficult, I think, to really be in tune with all that business side of it for bands. Most band guys don't know anything about it. I remember someone in the Deftones once saying: “hey man, we have a gold record and we're broke. I can't even afford rent. How do you guys make all this money?”. And we're like: “we don't make a lot of money, but here's how”. It’s a hard negotiation and it's hard for band guys to delve into the business world, but we've always been more interested in the business side of it than most bands, especially me and Jim [Lindberg]. And it's helped us navigate the waters and know when people are trying to play us.

We've had major labels say: “hey, we want to take you out for a lobster dinner and talk to you about this and this”. We can buy our own dinner. We don't need to go on that date. The answer's no. So just keeping yourself informed and doing things better in your position for negotiation, I think that’s the best thing that you can do from a band standpoint - but it's definitely hard.

It's hard to be on top of things in this music industry and everything's changed so much. And nowadays it's getting hard again to get labels. In those days, you were forced to do your own thing, put out your own records. Then you saw a time period where everybody was getting signed and there were tons of labels. And now you've seen it go back by the wayside where people need to do their own stuff again. So I don't know. You've got to reach out for help if you're in a band and you’ve got to be leery of everything that's going on or you wind up in a really bad deal. And you've heard about 'em and people trying to get out of the deal, signing your life away is not a good idea.

You will be performing at the wildly eclectic Good Things festival in December and sharing the bill with the likes of Devo, Limp Bizit, and Bullet For My Valentine to name but a few. For you, what makes a truly remarkable festival and something that sets the experience apart from standalone shows or other festivals?

I think it’s a pretty diverse lineup on this festival. And I think the “bro vibe” on this festival is, from what I've heard, we haven't played it yet, but it seems really cool. I mean “bro vibe” as far as friends and hanging out with people, I’ve got a lot of people who are working on that festival and the owners of the festival, the creators are people that we've been friends with for a long time. But I like the idea of Devo. I forgot to say that earlier. Devo pretty much are one of the bands that turned me onto punk rock, got me on that pathway. It was one of the first bands, them and The B-52’s and The Flying Lizards, who were kind of new wave. They weren't really punk rock, but punk rockers were adopting 'em. That's a really influential band for me as far as my lifestyle change towards punk rock.

But having them and Limp Bizkit on the same bill, I mean, there couldn't be two more opposite bands ever. Devo’s just really eclectic, kinda goofy, new wave-y. Are We Not Men? And then Limp Bizkit’s like; I'll break your fucking face tonight. And I like both of them. So, I think this fest kind of switches it up a little bit more than some of the other festival’s we've played in the past. And then Bullet For My Valentine too! It just has a little bit more to choose from.

I've always liked that about Australia, the punk rock scene's really strong, the metal scene's really strong. The rock and roll scene's really strong, but you can put all those bands on the same bill and have all those fans be there and they all get along. And the energy is always awesome. Aussies have a good way of enjoying all styles of music, which a lot of countries don't. It's like: “normal metal or that's it, get out of my face”. But Aussies will adapt to anything out there and make it good. So I reckon that Devo’s gonna go off just as hard as Limp Bizkit. It's going to be really cool, and I feel like it's going to be a really good time. Not to use a pun there, but it's true. It feels like a really fun festival and the name encompasses it properly.